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SUPER BOWL XLVIII


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#151 Sideshow91

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Posted February 06 2013, 01:36 PM

LOL, we crossed again. Problem is I am on a telcon while I am doing this.

No, they didn't say fuck player safety. Not directly, although I see where you are coming from and if you subscribe to their logic, that is the result (we implemented these rules benevolently, solely for player safety, oops, we may screw up the big show to the extent we are mandating our officials call the penalties, so let's pull it back).

The inconsistency problem occurs when officials are given "interpretations" that differ drastically from previous interpretations. MLB has done this with the strike zone for years. The interpretations on a lot of things are minor adjustments, but every now and then they are huge changes (hockey with interference calls in the neutral zone, for example).

I don't disagree with a lot of your position about the stance they should have taken. It may be too late now, who knows. I have problems with a lot of what they are doing from a consistency basis. Among the things on the list:

  • If a head-head hit is bad on a QB or a "defenseless" receiver, why is it any less bad on any other player?
  • Where is the line between hitting a defenseless receiver and a defender playing the ball?
  • Given the number of flags we have seen on legal hits, should those be reviewable? I don't like the idea of reviewing penalties, but if the league has adopted a "shoot first and ask questions later," and the response is we get flags whenever a receiver or QB's head moves, whether it was hit or not, there has to be a mitigation.
  • When the flags fly and there is disagreement among the officials about what happened, how does that get sorted out? I have never seen one of these calls pulled back, even when it was in error and there appeared to be some disagreement.


All good points. And I wouldn't have a problem if what you are suggesting is the case, in that the league admits that they were too aggressive at implementing these rules and that the SB was their way of pulling back. But the minute my team is flagged for a hit like the one on Crabtree and there is a flag, I'm going to be pissed. The other thing we could be looking at is just the difference from crew to crew as this officiating crew for the SB have thrown one of the lowest amount of penalty flags all season, which would then bring up the question, "IS THIS WHY the LEAGUE SELECTED THEM TO DO THE SB?" I wonder if there is a way to look up to see which officiating crew threw the most illegal hits flags this season.

#152 FourthStooge

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Posted February 06 2013, 02:57 PM

All good points. And I wouldn't have a problem if what you are suggesting is the case, in that the league admits that they were too aggressive at implementing these rules and that the SB was their way of pulling back. But the minute my team is flagged for a hit like the one on Crabtree and there is a flag, I'm going to be pissed. The other thing we could be looking at is just the difference from crew to crew as this officiating crew for the SB have thrown one of the lowest amount of penalty flags all season, which would then bring up the question, "IS THIS WHY the LEAGUE SELECTED THEM TO DO THE SB?" I wonder if there is a way to look up to see which officiating crew threw the most illegal hits flags this season.


I'm sure that is data is available, but I have no idea where it would be. My guess is it would be Arms Hochuli's crew since they take great pride in throwing flags overall (and it would seem such a group would relish a new set of rules and interpretations to throw more flags about).

Do we know that this crew called one of the lowest numbers of penalties all year? I missed most of the pregame talk (on purpose) and could have easily missed it if it were mentioned during the game (I was at a party). If so, that flies in the face of who they selected in previous years. The last several years I always remember the comment that the crew called either the most penalties or was one of the highest crews throughout the season.

Personally, I have never liked the idea of promoting crews who call the most penalties. I'm biased, but I think most fans would prefer fewer penalties called, especially those away from the ball that have no real impact and imperil no one. But then again, I have always been a proponent of preventative officiating.

#153 Sideshow91

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Posted February 06 2013, 03:03 PM

I'm sure that is data is available, but I have no idea where it would be. My guess is it would be Arms Hochuli's crew since they take great pride in throwing flags overall (and it would seem such a group would relish a new set of rules and interpretations to throw more flags about).

Do we know that this crew called one of the lowest numbers of penalties all year? I missed most of the pregame talk (on purpose) and could have easily missed it if it were mentioned during the game (I was at a party). If so, that flies in the face of who they selected in previous years. The last several years I always remember the comment that the crew called either the most penalties or was one of the highest crews throughout the season.

Personally, I have never liked the idea of promoting crews who call the most penalties. I'm biased, but I think most fans would prefer fewer penalties called, especially those away from the ball that have no real impact and imperil no one. But then again, I have always been a proponent of preventative officiating.


I'm doing a search right now. But from what I remember reading is that Hochuli's crew was second for most penalties behind Ron Winter's crew.

#154 Leroy

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Posted February 06 2013, 06:08 PM

One thing, MIT...as far as consistency goes, i think you're spazzing out on some "Everybody hates the Yinz" shit again. As long as games are officiated consistently throughout the specific game the crew is officiating, fuck the complaining. Tell me, throughout the ENTIRE HISTORY both you and even Stooge have been watching football, when have you observed games being officiated consistently throughout a season? You haven't. Even back in the 80's, there were games during the season where they let teams get away with murder, then the very next week the same officiating crew didn't. There is absolutely nothing new to this. There is no "AHA!" moment here.

Of course they 'let them play' in the Super Bowl. Good for them. That shouldn't impact the way they officiate games next year in the regular season. So when James Harrison decides to spear a guy in Week 2, I'm all for throwing the flag and waiting to hear him cry about retiring and how he wouldn't piss on Gooddell if he were on fire and the rest of the whiny piss and black fans backing him up on that. I can't think of one buttfucking (for San Francisco, Geto, and even more specifically, Chris Culliver) sport, period, that wants the officials to be the stars of their final game. So, with that being said let me be the first to issue a preemptive "FUCK OFF" to the fans of any team (but knowing this site, Steelers or Pats fans, who for some reason think the NFL is out to screw them even though they are both huge markets that bring the NFL a veritable shitton of revenue) that want to point to the finger back to this Super Bowl once a call is going against your team that you don't agree with. It's a different game. :shrug:

Posted Image

"GET OVER IT!!!" :yep:


----------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE
Oh, Stooge would notice ta-tas. I always notice such things, even if I were evacuating a burning building with just seconds to spare. I would have noticed had I been running from the World Trade Center as it was collapsing. Might as well die with a smile on my face. I think the saying is take time to smell the roses!


4thStooge, on when it's appropriate to check out and mentally approve of a woman's womanly assets.

QUOTE
Why we gotta treat the anus with so much nonchalance?


Stigmata

GO GATA!!!

#155 Leroy

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Posted February 06 2013, 06:11 PM

Randy Cross is a douche. I don't know what else to tell you except I felt this way when he was playing and his career as a commentator only exacerbated that. The fact that he would trot out that bullshit suprises me not at all.

Another ex-49er that's right behind him, and it pains me to say it because of his on field greatness: Jerry Rice.


:yawn:


----------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE
Oh, Stooge would notice ta-tas. I always notice such things, even if I were evacuating a burning building with just seconds to spare. I would have noticed had I been running from the World Trade Center as it was collapsing. Might as well die with a smile on my face. I think the saying is take time to smell the roses!


4thStooge, on when it's appropriate to check out and mentally approve of a woman's womanly assets.

QUOTE
Why we gotta treat the anus with so much nonchalance?


Stigmata

GO GATA!!!

#156 GetoThunderFist

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Posted February 06 2013, 06:33 PM

:yawn:


Exactly how I feel when I hear Randy Cross talk.


.

#157 Leroy

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Posted February 06 2013, 07:25 PM

Exactly how I feel when I hear Randy Cross talk.


What makes Rice a douche?

Your Randy Cross hatin' tendencies aside, Atlanta has a new sports talk radio station in 92.9 The Game. No one on there is Le Ba Tard, but it's a fuckload better than 680 The Fan, where the recipe for success is a UGA Broadcasting alum and whatever old UGA QB you can find. I mean, it was Good Ole' Boy radio at it's finest.

This new station has Kordell Stewart, Jamie Dukes, Carl Dukes (who, even though he has the same last name and sounds just like Jamie, isn't related to him, I think), and CJ Simpson. Kordell is pretty funny from time to time on the radio. They had remade The Chilites "Have You Seen Her?" with "Manti Have You Seen Her?" doing the whole Te'o fiasco.

":CJ Simpson?" you say...well, this is CJ Simpson:

Posted Image

I was like, "Wow, now there's a white girl that makes Leroy want to defect from the home team..." then when I got to reading about her background, I think she's black. :huh:

I'm so confused...and no, it really doesn't matter what color she is, but I'm interested nonetheless. :shrug:


----------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE
Oh, Stooge would notice ta-tas. I always notice such things, even if I were evacuating a burning building with just seconds to spare. I would have noticed had I been running from the World Trade Center as it was collapsing. Might as well die with a smile on my face. I think the saying is take time to smell the roses!


4thStooge, on when it's appropriate to check out and mentally approve of a woman's womanly assets.

QUOTE
Why we gotta treat the anus with so much nonchalance?


Stigmata

GO GATA!!!

#158 GetoThunderFist

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Posted February 06 2013, 10:54 PM

What makes Rice a douche?

Your Randy Cross hatin' tendencies aside, Atlanta has a new sports talk radio station in 92.9 The Game. No one on there is Le Ba Tard, but it's a fuckload better than 680 The Fan, where the recipe for success is a UGA Broadcasting alum and whatever old UGA QB you can find. I mean, it was Good Ole' Boy radio at it's finest.

This new station has Kordell Stewart, Jamie Dukes, Carl Dukes (who, even though he has the same last name and sounds just like Jamie, isn't related to him, I think), and CJ Simpson. Kordell is pretty funny from time to time on the radio. They had remade The Chilites "Have You Seen Her?" with "Manti Have You Seen Her?" doing the whole Te'o fiasco.

":CJ Simpson?" you say...well, this is CJ Simpson:

Posted Image

I was like, "Wow, now there's a white girl that makes Leroy want to defect from the home team..." then when I got to reading about her background, I think she's black. :huh:

I'm so confused...and no, it really doesn't matter what color she is, but I'm interested nonetheless. :shrug:


I'll dial back on calling him a douche. I'll just say he's always rubbed me the wrong way. It started with his comments after the third super bowl victory where he claimed he wasn't getting attention or lucrative sponsor deals because he was black up and until Super Bowl week where he agreed with Tim Brown. Nothing he ever said or did reached TO level but it was frequently enough to make you cock your head and go "Uh, what...really?" He's a hard working dude, though and will forever be grateful for what he did on the field. I love him for that, I just would never ever want to grab a beer with the dude, if you know what I am saying.

Have you heard Bomani Jones on Lebatard yet? He'll be there tomorrow. I am trying like hell to figure out a way to get him on our air without doing the obvious "Say...you're black. Talk on our show about this black athlete issue. Maybe you can come back afterwards when there is another black athlete issue to discuss. Thank you." The dude is crazy insightful and funny.


.

#159 Sideshow91

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Posted February 06 2013, 11:31 PM

One thing, MIT...as far as consistency goes, i think you're spazzing out on some "Everybody hates the Yinz" shit again. As long as games are officiated consistently throughout the specific game the crew is officiating, fuck the complaining. Tell me, throughout the ENTIRE HISTORY both you and even Stooge have been watching football, when have you observed games being officiated consistently throughout a season? You haven't. Even back in the 80's, there were games during the season where they let teams get away with murder, then the very next week the same officiating crew didn't. There is absolutely nothing new to this. There is no "AHA!" moment here.

Of course they 'let them play' in the Super Bowl. Good for them. That shouldn't impact the way they officiate games next year in the regular season. So when James Harrison decides to spear a guy in Week 2, I'm all for throwing the flag and waiting to hear him cry about retiring and how he wouldn't piss on Gooddell if he were on fire and the rest of the whiny piss and black fans backing him up on that. I can't think of one buttfucking (for San Francisco, Geto, and even more specifically, Chris Culliver) sport, period, that wants the officials to be the stars of their final game. So, with that being said let me be the first to issue a preemptive "FUCK OFF" to the fans of any team (but knowing this site, Steelers or Pats fans, who for some reason think the NFL is out to screw them even though they are both huge markets that bring the NFL a veritable shitton of revenue) that want to point to the finger back to this Super Bowl once a call is going against your team that you don't agree with. It's a different game. :shrug:

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"GET OVER IT!!!" :yep:



#160 Sideshow91

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Posted February 06 2013, 11:40 PM

One thing, MIT...as far as consistency goes, i think you're spazzing out on some "Everybody hates the Yinz" shit again. As long as games are officiated consistently throughout the specific game the crew is officiating, fuck the complaining. Tell me, throughout the ENTIRE HISTORY both you and even Stooge have been watching football, when have you observed games being officiated consistently throughout a season? You haven't. Even back in the 80's, there were games during the season where they let teams get away with murder, then the very next week the same officiating crew didn't. There is absolutely nothing new to this. There is no "AHA!" moment here.

Of course they 'let them play' in the Super Bowl. Good for them. That shouldn't impact the way they officiate games next year in the regular season. So when James Harrison decides to spear a guy in Week 2, I'm all for throwing the flag and waiting to hear him cry about retiring and how he wouldn't piss on Gooddell if he were on fire and the rest of the whiny piss and black fans backing him up on that. I can't think of one buttfucking (for San Francisco, Geto, and even more specifically, Chris Culliver) sport, period, that wants the officials to be the stars of their final game. So, with that being said let me be the first to issue a preemptive "FUCK OFF" to the fans of any team (but knowing this site, Steelers or Pats fans, who for some reason think the NFL is out to screw them even though they are both huge markets that bring the NFL a veritable shitton of revenue) that want to point to the finger back to this Super Bowl once a call is going against your team that you don't agree with. It's a different game. :shrug:

Posted Image

"GET OVER IT!!!" :yep:


You are jumping to conclusions that just aren't there Mr USA Tony Atlas. This has very little to do with the team I root for and mostly to do with my fandom of the shield

First off, I like the way the refs let them them play from a holding, interference, offside standpoint. But, IMO, the helmet to helmet hits are different and are in their own separate category. Would you say the league had claimed to make player safety the número UNO priority? If so, how does letting hits like that go not confuse the hell out of defenders and fans? Unless you believe that all of the officials genuinely missed that play, which is a slight possibility.

#161 Leroy

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Posted February 07 2013, 09:39 AM

I'll dial back on calling him a douche. I'll just say he's always rubbed me the wrong way. It started with his comments after the third super bowl victory where he claimed he wasn't getting attention or lucrative sponsor deals because he was black up and until Super Bowl week where he agreed with Tim Brown. Nothing he ever said or did reached TO level but it was frequently enough to make you cock your head and go "Uh, what...really?" He's a hard working dude, though and will forever be grateful for what he did on the field. I love him for that, I just would never ever want to grab a beer with the dude, if you know what I am saying.

Have you heard Bomani Jones on Lebatard yet? He'll be there tomorrow. I am trying like hell to figure out a way to get him on our air without doing the obvious "Say...you're black. Talk on our show about this black athlete issue. Maybe you can come back afterwards when there is another black athlete issue to discuss. Thank you." The dude is crazy insightful and funny.


Yeah, Bomani Jones is the shit. That said, why not call him up and say that? He knows how his bleepin' bread is buttered!!! He's hot because he's a black dude who is straightforward and says shit that a black guy can get away with saying if he has some wit. I mean, if you really want to dance around it...tell him what you want him to talk about and just reassure him that he has every right to "be himself" while on your airwaves. :lol:


You are jumping to conclusions that just aren't there Mr USA Tony Atlas. This has very little to do with the team I root for and mostly to do with my fandom of the shield

First off, I like the way the refs let them them play from a holding, interference, offside standpoint. But, IMO, the helmet to helmet hits are different and are in their own separate category. Would you say the league had claimed to make player safety the número UNO priority? If so, how does letting hits like that go not confuse the hell out of defenders and fans? Unless you believe that all of the officials genuinely missed that play, which is a slight possibility.


I mean, to what end are you going to chase this to? You'll never be able to prove one or another that they let that call go intentionally, sooooo what's the point? Now, I will say you have a point on them being hypocritical if they don't go back and fine the Baltimore defender for the hit, but real time officiating is still subject to human error. A missed call is simply that...a missed call. Nothing more.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE
Oh, Stooge would notice ta-tas. I always notice such things, even if I were evacuating a burning building with just seconds to spare. I would have noticed had I been running from the World Trade Center as it was collapsing. Might as well die with a smile on my face. I think the saying is take time to smell the roses!


4thStooge, on when it's appropriate to check out and mentally approve of a woman's womanly assets.

QUOTE
Why we gotta treat the anus with so much nonchalance?


Stigmata

GO GATA!!!

#162 FourthStooge

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Posted February 07 2013, 09:39 AM

I can believe the officials actually just missed that hit. As Leroy pointed out, with the number of things that the league has added into whether a catch is a catch, the guy coming from behind like that could easily escape the official's scrutiny. He is looking to determine catch/no catch and, especially at that spot on the field, where to spot the ball. He is not expecting that hit from that angle.

To make it even more likely, consider where they are on the field. Everything is compressed. Helmet-helmet hits are generally flagged by an official some distance away (usually not the guy closest to the play), which gives them a better perspective, even if the exact contact is harder to see. Think of it this way, from some distance back, the official has a wider field of view to see things he is not expecting to see. That is important because you have enough officials to watch matchups (that is generally what their assignments are based on). Players are bigger, faster, etc than since officials responsibilities were defined. Adding "scrutinizing every hit" is too much to ask (which is why we get "false flags" in the regular season, since it is pretty clear they have been told to shoot first and ask questions later). There is a limit to how far away is helpful, but I think at that point on the field, everything being compressed into about a 15 yard box from the LOS makes it tougher.

I know that seems counter intuitive, but back when I was umpiring college baseball, one of the biggest flaws I saw people make was getting too close to the play, essentially taking anything but what is expected out of view. Hell, it happened to me once or twice. It happens in every sport except maybe something like boxing, where the only action is between two identified participants.

It even happens in wrestling, where the referee is too close to the wrestlers in the ring to see that third guy jump in with the chain saw.

#163 Sideshow91

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Posted February 07 2013, 02:30 PM

Yeah, Bomani Jones is the shit. That said, why not call him up and say that? He knows how his bleepin' bread is buttered!!! He's hot because he's a black dude who is straightforward and says shit that a black guy can get away with saying if he has some wit. I mean, if you really want to dance around it...tell him what you want him to talk about and just reassure him that he has every right to "be himself" while on your airwaves. :lol:




I mean, to what end are you going to chase this to? You'll never be able to prove one or another that they let that call go intentionally, sooooo what's the point? Now, I will say you have a point on them being hypocritical if they don't go back and fine the Baltimore defender for the hit, but real time officiating is still subject to human error. A missed call is simply that...a missed call. Nothing more.


I can't help it. The league has muddied the waters for me so much as a fan that every game I watch I find myself playing a lawyer in trying to establish what hits are illegal, what hits are legal, what hits are finable, what hits are this and that. I CAN'T stand it. I can't stand the fact that I'm reacting to it like I am on this thread. I love that the league changed the rule that a WR has to land in bounds with both feet and did away with the push out rule. To me, most of these H2H hits are like the push rule X 100 in terms of their significance to the outcome of the game. And I think you mis-read my point on fining Jimmy Smith. If the league WANTS to have it's safety rules have teeth, I'd rather them go back after the fact and issue a fine for an illegal hit that isn't flagged on the field as opposed to over flagging hits that look bad but were LEGAL like the Chancellor hit on Vernon Davis.

To Stooge's point, this league is SO over officiated in terms of the rules and interpretation of the rules that it is confusing. For example, the tuck rule. I saw the exact same play called two different ways this season. The competition committee needs to work on simplifying the rules and not over complicating them. I mean the empty hand moving forward, does the rule say the hand has to be empty? Or can the ball be moving in the hand as it's moving forward? Can anybody here answer that? Here's another one, can a shoulder pad of a defender contact the head of a "defenseless player"? I don't know for sure, I don't think any part can contact the head or neck area of a defenseless player but I'm not sure. I've also, like Stooge or someone pointed out, seen an adjustment to rules and new rules as they are implemented on the fly. Case in point, the hit to the QBs legs have NOT been called as strictly as the season after Tom Brady's season was ended. The league needs to quit changing on the fly as much as they have, it's killing the integrity of the game. I wonder if sometimes Goddell is sifting through message boards to gauge fan reaction to how things are being officiated and sends out memos to the refs for the upcoming week to adjust to the fans complaints.

#164 FourthStooge

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Posted February 07 2013, 03:33 PM

The league has gotten reactionary. Every single "bad thing" that happens spawns a new rule or action. There is no thought of cause and effect, the unintended consequences, or the inevitable equal and opposite reaction. I'm not even sure whether the fact that the actions dictated by the rule are often nearly impossible matters.

If this is in reference to the litigation over concussion-related effects, here's a deep thought for the league: they aren't being sued over the concussions. They are being sued because it is alleged that they knew or should have known (that old reasonable and prudent person again) and took no action and failed to disclose the risks. Hell, not only that, they allowed the hits to be glorified in the marketing of their product. If those allegation are true, all the draconian penalties, wild rule and interpretation changes, and commercials about how they are redefining the game do not matter at this point.

I'm not saying they should do nothing but accept it. But, unless they have been sitting on a solution (which clearly they have not), throwing the dung against the wall to see what sticks is a bad strategy on a number of counts. Geez, is it rocket science to analyze what is known, come up with a sane plan, review it to figure out the most likely things that can backfire, try to mitigate those, and then implement it? That means they won't have a new rule on Tuesday for something that happened 48 hours earlier, but guess what, that's how effective measures are taken. But all that is beyond Goodell and company. These are the same guys who thought they were going to win a battle with the officials because pretty much trained apes could officiate NFL games and nobody would notice the difference.

The league has rapidly become its own worst enemy.

But, since our society operates the same way, I guess it should be of no surprise. Ready......fire.......aim!




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