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Montana vs Manning: who's the 2nd greatest of all time?


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#1 Birdman

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Posted February 23 2017, 04:48 PM

I know we'd all be quick to say Montana but he didn't have the GOAT QB and HC standing in the way of a few Super Bowl runs the way Manning did



#2 badasp

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Posted February 23 2017, 05:13 PM

  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I heard John Steigerwald (I'll let our Steelers brethren chime in on him) state during a radio interview this morning that not only is Montana better than Brady but so was Terry Bradshaw. I guess that means your question is based on two false premises; that Brady is the GOAT and that Manning had the GOAT as an impediment. Let the games begin anew...


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#3 ward8668

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Posted February 23 2017, 10:56 PM

  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I heard John Steigerwald (I'll let our Steelers brethren chime in on him) state during a radio interview this morning that not only is Montana better than Brady but so was Terry Bradshaw. I guess that means your question is based on two false premises; that Brady is the GOAT and that Manning had the GOAT as an impediment. Let the games begin anew...

You could make an argument for Manning if you took Super Bowl wins out of it but because that seems to be VERY important in a QB debate, I think the point is moot.


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#4 Birdman

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Posted February 24 2017, 07:48 AM

You could make an argument for Manning if you took Super Bowl wins out of it but because that seems to be VERY important in a QB debate, I think the point is moot.

Well even though he was mediocre at best in both of his SB winning runs you still have to give him credit as a multiple SB winning QB. I think we're all "responsible" enough here to know that wins are a team stat that is heavily influenced by QB play and SB wins aren't looked at in a vacuum but rather as a sort of "tiebreaker." A lot of folks ran with the "Marino threw better but Montana was greater," argument because he never won a Super Bowl. Do we hold Manning to those same standards or do we elevate him because of all the numbers, records, MVPs, AND SB wins? Personally I think doing it in this era is much more impressive. I don't think the easier passing rules or offense friendly league offsets the effects of the salary cap. Putting up all the numbers he did for 18 years with all the different players and winning a SB on two different teams has to count for something. If people were ready to crown him the GOAT in the 2000s does he at least have a shot at 2nd GOAT now?

#5 Birdman

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Posted February 24 2017, 07:48 AM

You could make an argument for Manning if you took Super Bowl wins out of it but because that seems to be VERY important in a QB debate, I think the point is moot.

Well even though he was mediocre at best in both of his SB winning runs you still have to give him credit as a multiple SB winning QB. I think we're all "responsible" enough here to know that wins are a team stat that is heavily influenced by QB play and SB wins aren't looked at in a vacuum but rather as a sort of "tiebreaker." A lot of folks ran with the "Marino threw better but Montana was greater," argument because he never won a Super Bowl. Do we hold Manning to those same standards or do we elevate him because of all the numbers, records, MVPs, AND SB wins? Personally I think doing it in this era is much more impressive. I don't think the easier passing rules or offense friendly league offsets the effects of the salary cap. Putting up all the numbers he did for 18 years with all the different players and winning a SB on two different teams has to count for something. If people were ready to crown him the GOAT in the 2000s does he at least have a shot at 2nd GOAT now?

#6 badasp

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Posted February 24 2017, 09:32 AM

Well even though he was mediocre at best in both of his SB winning runs you still have to give him credit as a multiple SB winning QB. I think we're all "responsible" enough here to know that wins are a team stat that is heavily influenced by QB play and SB wins aren't looked at in a vacuum but rather as a sort of "tiebreaker." A lot of folks ran with the "Marino threw better but Montana was greater," argument because he never won a Super Bowl. Do we hold Manning to those same standards or do we elevate him because of all the numbers, records, MVPs, AND SB wins? Personally I think doing it in this era is much more impressive. I don't think the easier passing rules or offense friendly league offsets the effects of the salary cap. Putting up all the numbers he did for 18 years with all the different players and winning a SB on two different teams has to count for something. If people were ready to crown him the GOAT in the 2000s does he at least have a shot at 2nd GOAT now?

 

  I think Peyton was a regular season stat machine. He's also a Reche Caldwell dropped catch from having one less SB ring than his brother. It pains me to even use his name in the same sentence as Montana.


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#7 Sideshow91

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Posted February 24 2017, 09:44 AM

I actually think Marino was a better QB than Peyton Manning, but I regress.  And badasp, as far as Staggy saying that Bradshaw was better, you have to consider his age and where he was when Bradshaw was in his prime, sure he played in that era where the QBs didn't have the rules to protect them like Brady and Manning, and based on pure arm strength, Bradshaw is right up there with Favre.  But, Bradshaw piggy backed off the greatest DF in NFL history for the first of his two SB titles and had a TD/Int ratio of something like 298/296, which shows WHY his DF was so important.  I will say this, go back and watch some of his deep ball throws, dude had a cannon and was accurate.  But I'm not putting him up there in the top 3-5,.. probably top 10 is debatable.



#8 GetoThunderFist

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Posted February 24 2017, 10:42 AM

Keep plugging away, sparky. One day those numbers will change if you wish hard enough. 




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#9 Birdman

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Posted February 24 2017, 12:16 PM

Keep plugging away, sparky. One day those numbers will change if you wish hard enough. 

 

I'm thinking Brady's numbers will change whether I wish for it or not. 6 Super Bowls? But you're right that Montana's numbers will always remain the same



#10 badasp

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Posted February 24 2017, 12:16 PM

I actually think Marino was a better QB than Peyton Manning, but I regress.  And badasp, as far as Staggy saying that Bradshaw was better, you have to consider his age and where he was when Bradshaw was in his prime, sure he played in that era where the QBs didn't have the rules to protect them like Brady and Manning, and based on pure arm strength, Bradshaw is right up there with Favre.  But, Bradshaw piggy backed off the greatest DF in NFL history for the first of his two SB titles and had a TD/Int ratio of something like 298/296, which shows WHY his DF was so important.  I will say this, go back and watch some of his deep ball throws, dude had a cannon and was accurate.  But I'm not putting him up there in the top 3-5,.. probably top 10 is debatable.

I'd rate Marino, Elway, Johnny U, and maybe even Favre higher than Manning. As for Staggy P. I knew where he was coming from the second he opened his mouth. I watched the Steelers of yore and am quite familiar with Bradshaw's abilities. I would never disparage him; I loved watching him play. That said he doesn't break my top 10 either.


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#11 Leroy

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Posted February 24 2017, 01:27 PM

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#12 Birdman

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Posted February 24 2017, 01:46 PM

FWIW I still take Montana over Manning. I'm just not sure where the argument started dying for Manning when we had him so propped up in the mid-late 2000's. What was the final straw the broke the camel's back of his playoff ineptitude? Super Bowl 48? One and done in 2014 because the Broncos were scared of going into NE? The you-could-see-it-coming-a-mile-away OT loss in the 2012 divisional round?



#13 stigmata

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Posted February 24 2017, 01:49 PM

I'd rate Marino, Elway, Johnny U, and maybe even Favre higher than Manning. As for Staggy P. I knew where he was coming from the second he opened his mouth. I watched the Steelers of yore and am quite familiar with Bradshaw's abilities. I would never disparage him; I loved watching him play. That said he doesn't break my top 10 either.

 

I don't know about putting Marino ahead of Manning. They were both regular season stat machines, but Manning exceeded Marino in both stats and rings.

 

Elway was a shrinking violet in the postseason, too. He owes his first ring to Terrell Davis and his second he shares with the Broncos D. Look at Elway's postseason stats... it includes a couple of great performances, several shitshows, and a whole lot of mediocrity.

 

Favre's first 6 postseason games were really, really good. The rest of his postseason career was forgettable for the most part.

 

I think you're peddling some pretty good hat on Manning there. ;)

 

Oh, and Bradshaw having a great arm? Meh. So does Cutler.


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#14 GetoThunderFist

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Posted February 24 2017, 01:51 PM

 

I'm thinking Brady's numbers will change whether I wish for it or not. 6 Super Bowls? But you're right that Montana's numbers will always remain the same

 

And they'll always be better than Brady's. Thanks for playing. 




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#15 Birdman

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Posted February 24 2017, 02:04 PM

 
And they'll always be better than Brady's. Thanks for playing. 


Lol whatever you say man. Brady is pretty much as consensus as it gets for GOAT. Why would I try to convince someone who would put Manziel at GOAT if he were a Browns fan? 0 credibility




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